Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Bush Playing Party Politics With Race Card
What does President Bush, really think of African Americans? I really think that he thinks' that we are idot's. Case in point as much racial stuff that was said and done in the in the past months, yet our president wants to play politics. Jena Louisiana, Columbia University, New York and the United States Coast Guard Acdamy and many others, all these things were a racial hot spot. Our president didn't think it note worthy to make mention of the ever increasing hate crimes, by displaying a "Horrific Remminder Of The African Americans Slaves Brutally Vicious Past At The Hands Of Many Whites", Instead of him addressing these issues when they are happening, he would rather insult our inteligence by saying something about it now. President Bush decides to speak up on this issue during Black History Month none the less. His timing is perfect for his parties political agenda but not for the young black men of "Jena Six." They felted that they had to protect themselves because the President and the Legislative body fell to do so. Young black kids are expected to go to schools, stores and many other public places, without being effected or angered by the presence of a "hang man noose." This was after all the very same Demoralizing Tool used to Lynch Many of Our Relatives." President Bush really need to Wise Up and We need to Rise Up, against Any an All Injustices.
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43 comments:
I don't see why you have to bring up the whole Jenna 6 thing. Those young men had criminal records and some being violent criminal records. As for the white kids, they are young and ignorant and their parents are to blame, but you cant go around hurting people physically. Just a reminder, every human race on the entire planet has been in slavery at one point or another, my ancestors were enslaved for HUNDREDS of years, its a horrible thing but its history...the past.
Andrew, because a person have a crimal record does that mean they should not have any rights as a person. As to your coment:
I don't see why you have to bring up the whole Jenna 6 thing.Well I bring it up because it is relievent to my people first of all. Jena 6, is also relievent to my children and how this country will treat them. It is relievent to evryone, because any injustice is a slap in the face of humanity period. The legal justice system is 5 times more likely to put a young black man in jail as it is to putting a young white male in jail. So although you claim that the young white male and his parents are just ignorant: Why then can't that same acceptance be granted to the 6 blak kids, were their actions "not just ignorant" as you proclaim? Your statement that:
Just a reminder, every human race on the entire planet has been in slavery at one point or another, my ancestors were enslaved for HUNDREDS of years, its a horrible thing but its history...the past. Is not a proper comparisom, many people are enslaved to credit card debt but in my book it is "Not the same" as the plight of black America to say the least. You coments are very sterotypical.
I agree about Black Americans need to rise up. In my personal opinion " Jena Six" clearly displayed how unjust the law is for Black Americans. I beleive that the white kids who hung the noose knew what they were doing, but only the black kids were chraged.Those kids had a choice to make and they made the wrong choice. I am not condoning what the black kids did. I can only image what thpe of rage invaded their bodies. I do not blame those kids parents. I blame the kids. You can't blame mom and dad for all your mistakes. I do believe that the justice system is bias.
Amanda Winn wrote this
I agree with Turner. Mr. Smith you are seeing the world in a clear bottle. You are looking at things as if if the world is black and white with no gray area.There is a gray area and its called being black or just a minority. You are making excuses for the young man that hung that noose as if, it wasn't suppose to hurt anyone or piss anyone off. You think for a min, that if Black American history was yor history, than would that noose bring about anger. You think aboy man, women, and children being killed for no reason. Treated like second class citizens. I am sorry, but being stupid isn't an excuse for a hate crime
Smith, I think that it is really clear that we need to base all of our claims on facts. The facts of this case is clear also. By definition:
"A criminal offense committed against a person, property or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin."
Mr. Smith, how can you draw any other conclusion from the "hangmans noose" bieng displayed in plain public veiw. This is the actual law but don't take my word for it, you can check it out for yourself at:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_98/
As Amada said: "We need to rise up." As for me I stand for justice in an unjust America.
(All of this is more about the comments than to the blog but credit is credit!)
"because a person have a crimal record does that mean they should not have any rights as a person."
Once they put their hands on somebody that changed everything. Your rights end where my begin. What those white students did was absolutely unacceptable and I can honestly say I would have done the exact same thing as those boys did but two wrongs don't make a right.
I will never know what is it like to be anything other than white. I can talk to people, I can read books but I will never really know. But I DO know what it is like to be hated on because I'm white. It doesn't happen as often for us but it does happen. The majority of my friends are people of a different race. I've dated outside my race and I have been in many fights because of all of that but all it accomplished for me was 3 hots and cot buddy.
What happened to those boys afterwards is not right but violence is not the way!!
>As for the white kids, they are young and ignorant and their parents are to blame, but you cant go around hurting people physically.
This is true of the kids on both sides and isn't really the issue. The problem with the Jena 6 issue was the fact that the punishments were so different for such similar things.
i was not making excuses, they are ignorant, ignorance is no excuse for the law. But, you cant just go around hurting other human beings even if someone did wrong to you or your culture. Justice well served.
Andrew: First it is wrong to get violent with anyone but could you really say that those young boy didn't fear for life? How could you know? Because the hangmans noose or the use of it does just that. If you only have a second to respond your body sends out only two signals. They are {fight or flight} and the choice is emmedaite. "Justice in this case was not Well Served." Did you read the copy of the hate crime law? If you did and you still come to the conclusion Justice well served, then you my friend have committed a logical fallacy, by ignoring the positive information.
Kristen; two things first I'm sorry that you were discriminated againt because you are white. I do know that this happens, more often then it is reported. I hope it never happen to you again but it most likely will, sad to say. The bright side of this is it will be few and far in between, many have to deal with this fact nearly everday of their lives. The second thing is, what is a "3 hots and cot buddy."
I get discriminated against every day(trust me on this one), and yes i have been in fear for my life mentally. It is still no excuse to hurt someone physically until someones does to to me. Disrespect is one thing, racism is another, but its life, people will be ignorant. There were 100's of other alternatives for those young men, they obviously chose the wrong one.
Andrew J., It has become clear you don't read the blogs or responce's thoroughly. Your have a disrespect for the facts. Are you discriminated against because of the way you were born or because color you were born into? Or is it because of the choices that you make?
Turner "three hot and a cot" means three square meals a day and a place to lay your head in jail. Mr. Smith I truly must say that you are being very bias. Turner is right that justice was not served. Primary because of the race of the individuals involved. I am pretty sure those white kids weren't punished enough for that noose they hung. Thinking something like that is funny is ridiculus. Kriten, i am sorry that you had to an ordeal were you can almost feel like what it is to be black. Like Turner said " it will only a couple times to you" It happens everyday to Black Americans. For example, my mother is I were in TJMAX last Thrusday doing some shopping. My mother decided to go to the jewerly counter and look at some jewerly. The sales associate was white and looked at my mother as if she was going to rob the store. I was angered by this, because my mother is strong, hard working Black American Female who was wearing her nursing uniform. Not all black or a ski mask. I politely informed my mother in front of the older white woman that she would not get service, because the lady assumed she would rob the store. After that I informed the sale associated that I would no longer spend my money in their store or recommend anyone else to spend their hard earned money. So yea Kriten it sad to say that you have experienced discrimination, but it sadder for me to have to deal with it because of the color of my skin.
By Amanda Winn
You all don't need to feel sorry for me. Nothing physical about me defines who I am as a person no matter what somebody else thinks. The people I hang around, the people I date..all of that is a small percentage of what makes me Kristen Paul!!
I don't think it's worse or more sad for one person to be discriminated on over another. Yes, it happens more often to some people than others but it doesn't feel any different to you than it would to a latino person, or indian person, or an asian person. It is messed up for ANYONE to be discriminated on but that's life. You can't control people and never will. It's not right but that's how it is.
kristen, i think you rock.
Thank you Amanda W. Kristen P. "I'm not feel sorry for you, but I, am sorry that it happend to you." As you said No One desevers that type of treatment. I also do beleive saddly that it could or would hurt you worst then it would hurt me. Because when you are effected this way almost everyday you get a little callist toward it. You hope for the best but you cut off your feelings, so you want be devistated by it any more.
Well thanks Josh!
I understand where you're coming from Turner.
And Amanda, I can understand what your mother went through. I used to work in a factory and by the end of my shift I looked a hot mess. I would be dirty, covered in lint and thread and because of what I had to do everyday I would never wear nice clothes to work so you can just imagine! (It was the best paying job I've ever had so I didn't mind!) Many times I went by the store before going home and I would stop to look at things. Jewely, electronics..whatever and people would look at me like I would run away with it all if they didn't keep their eye on me. In reality, I made more money than any manager in that store and twice as much as the people behind these counters.
It used to make me mad but at the end of the day those people don't feed me, pay my bills, or support my family so I keep my big girl panties on keep stepping.
Turner "three hot and a cot" means three square meals a day and a place to lay your head in jail. Mr. Smith I truly must say that you are being very bias.
"free the jena 6", so they can do this when they get out?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/national/main3804144.shtml
very bias... come on people, your letting these public speakers lie to you. Birds of a feather flock together. So was that young man in fear for his life like he was last time, or says he was last time.
You cannot talk injustice this injustice that, you may say this has everything to do with race. It has to do with these young men having criminal records. Who would you believe in a court?
Let me see if I follow your logic: Becuase someone have committed a crime before, they have no integrity and are gulity of all subsiqent crimes until proven innoicent. If it is to be as you say, Smith we are all gulity and should be imprisoned. Thankfully not ever one has such a perception as you have.
Again, Andrew, it appears that you are coming to a conclusion here based on incomplete or biased information and arguing against things that nobody claimed. The facts of the case are pretty simple and are in little dispute:
1. Because a black student sat under the "white" tree at the high school, several white students engaged in a hate crime. The hanging of a noose on a tree has a long history in the U.S. and is the equivalent of burning a cross on someone's lawn -- it is a direct call back to the days of lynching and is classified under law as hate speech, something that is not protected under the First Amendment. Because the white students were under age, though, they were not charged with a hate crime and were given other minor school-related punishments.
2. Several black students went to a mostly-white party, where they were assaulted by white students. One white student received a charge of minory battery. That was it.
3. Several black students ambushed and beat a white student unconscious. They were charged with attempted murder. Since then, one of the charges was dropped to a lesser level, the others are still pending.
The other details of the story that have been mentioned are irrelevant. There were three crimes in this incident. The hate speech. The white assault on black students and the black assault on white students. Of the three, two were met with minor penalties, the third was met with major penalties that, by any objective standard, are way out of proportion to the actual crime. This is why people are upset about this situation. The difference in the penalties for similar activities and the fact that while the white students started it, most of them went with minor or no punishment and the black students were given major punishments.
All of the actions that all of these students, regardless of race, engaged in were wrong in this situation. They should be punished for it. But they should be punished equally and fairly. That hasn't happened yet. Andrew, in taking the argument that you have taken, you are in complete agreement with the KKK, who protested on behalf of the white students and against the black students. I doubt you want to be included in that company, but you are using the same arguments they are using. I'd stay away from any argument that was made by the KKK if I were you.
>Just a reminder, every human race on the entire planet has been in slavery at one point or another, my ancestors were enslaved for HUNDREDS of years, its a horrible thing but its history...the past.
But these things weren't equal. They didn't happen in the same time period or for the same length of time. And new world slavery was much harsher than other forms of slavery. Beyond that, this isn't simply a thing of the past. Officially, slavery ended in 1865, but it was largely replaced by sharecropping, which was almost the exact same thing for most people and that lasted up to the Great Depression. That was replaced by segregation and Jim Crow, which lasted up until the 1970s. All of these things have effects to the present in the U.S. I doubt the slavery your ancestors endured has any effect on the modern United States.
Mr. Q, would you give the same penalty to a minor with no criminal record as you would an adult with previous aggravated charges?
How is new world slavery "harsher" than old forms of slavery?
Also to your KKK comment, there are many black leaders who take the same stand i do on the issue of it and they are outraged that people are pulling the "race card" on this subject.
I am done with this blog as well as many others, and turner quit bringing this blog subject up in other blogs, and please check your spelling and punctuation. It is hard to take someone seriously when every other word is misspelled and concepts out of order.
>Mr. Q, would you give the same penalty to a minor with no criminal record as you would an adult with previous aggravated charges?
No, but I also wouldn't give the same penalty to someone who engaged in a hate crime and violence the same penalty as someone who used violence in response to a hate crime. Hate crimes are worse than violence, because they have the effected of causing fear and hatred amongst a whole community which can lead to many worse things. Hanging nooses is meant to intimidate black people into staying in "their place." That's much worse than beating someone up. And under no definition of the word "murder" was this attempted murder. If they had actually attempted to murder the guy, then he'd be dead, since he was unconscious.
>How is new world slavery "harsher" than old forms of slavery?
First of "was" is the appropriate word here, not "is." Look toward any history book. Slavery, as it was practiced in the Caribbean and the U.S. was more brutal, more controlling and more dehumanizing than slavery that was practiced elsewhere.
>Also to your KKK comment, there are many black leaders who take the same stand i do on the issue of it and they are outraged that people are pulling the "race card" on this subject.
If there are, I'm not aware of them. I haven't seen any black leaders opposing the Jena six, supporting the hanging of nooses or using the words "race card." That phrase is used to mean that someone is saying racism is involved in a situation when it is not. In this case, it clearly is. When you have a "whites only" tree, hanging nooses and an attack on black students who go to a white party, that's racism, not the "race card." If anyone played the race card, it was the white students.
That's not to excuse what the black kids did in this case either. Violence is violence and it's wrong, but that still doesn't excuse what the white kids did either.
>give the same penalty to a minor with no criminal record as you would an adult with previous aggravated charges?
Oh, and on this one, of the Jena 6, only one of them was an "adult" at the time and he was 18. The others were all under 18. Besides, I wouldn't necessarily consider 18 to be an adult. It can be in some cases, and it is under the law, but clearly this guy wasn't an "adult" in his mental processes. It isn't like the number changes from 17 to 18 and all of a sudden you go from being immature to mature.
How old do you have to be to realize that hitting people is against the law and morally wrong? I think i was about 5 when i learned this. Hurting someone verbally or with a sign of racism is also against the law in some instances, but you cannot kill someone with words, or with symbols of racism, you can however kill someone with your fist. I have seen a school fight in person where the kid is still to this day in a comma from one punch. I kid you not. No racial slur or hateful words could ever do that to someone.
I think we should all agree to disagree on this one and move to the other blogs! I think everyone got the credit they needed for the entire semester on this one!!
Jeez, if it wasn't for this last comment I was gonna mention something about guns and violence and craziness and maturity. Thank you for the open door, kristen.
Andrew, I'm not for violence but I have seen plenty in my day. Most of it was because of race and not anything else. I, am not mad, nor bitter, I have learned that you can love poeple for who they are and for were they are. But we should still exspect change and be diligent to bring about change. I've been hurt and affected by racism but I don't want my children to have to go through it as much as I have. By the same token I, have loved and found love in many people who use to be some what racist. On occasions I have even acted racist, but I look at things much differently now, however "it hurts much worst when it hurts or affects your children." That my friend is The Point" I have four loveable, great, obedient, respectful and educated children ages 8 -15 years, and they have had to face things a child should not have to ever face; right here in good old Tallahassee Florida, and all because of one thing and only one thing "The Color Of Their Skin." Our life, our friends, our church, our schools, our work place and much more, is not segregated or racist so why do society try to mold them that way?
Kristen, on this one it really isn't about the blog credit its a non violent way to stand up for my wife and kids, because for them I will die without even a seconds thought. The End!
I understand where you're coming from Lamar. You don't want your children to go through the same things you went through but you can't change people. Just as sure as you experienced racism, your children will experience it, and if the world is still around, then their children will experience it.
There are always going to be ignorant people in this world. The only thing you can do is raise your children to the best of your ability and hope, that when the time comes when somebody tries them with things like the stuff we've talked about on this blog, that they are strong enough to react in the right way. If they choose NOT to, then I hope they understand that the same ignorant ass people that tried them out in the street will probably be the same type of people that try in a court of law.
Kristen P., They will be strong, they will face hate at some point, they will know their choices and the nature of a parent is to always be frieghtend by it all. I really don't know anything about you, yet you responses speacks volumes about what's in you. It is my believe that you have a gift of listening to what's being said, as-well-as understanding what is being said as well. although they sound like the same thing they are in-fact very diferent ablities entirely. Aside from that I think that in your word's you show many core values and some deep convictions on this that is relative to us all as student. One day we might not always agree on some issues that each of us may face but I am confident, if that day should come I, know that you would have given proper deliberation to the issue at that point. By chance what is your major or what's your ideal job in the future?
I understand. I am not a parent but as someone with neices and nephews I do understand.
And thank you very much. Right now my major is between Crimnal Law and Political Science. I'm not exactly sure about which job, just something in the judicial system. Like we've pointed out in this blog, the system is unfair to certain people. There are people in jail, in prison, and even sitting on death row that are not suppose to be there. People who were not given proper representation because they are poor or people who have gotten harsher punishments because of their race. I don't think it is right and I want to do everything I can to try and change that. Maybe I'm being naive but I don't think we can truely have a strong country when we are not even treating our own people right.
Kristen P., not only do I totaly feel your two choices for a Major are wise choices. Something tells me that you would really be the bomb {awsome} at eighter of them as well, in years to come we will both look back on our careers and say "Remember When Someone Said They Saw", this or that in me even back then.
Ok, iturner, where do I start...the noose is a rope. It is a knot that was used not just to hang blacks, but many other races and in many other cultures. The cross that jesus was hammered to is a cross...do christians complain when they see a crucifix? And, bye the way, just because somebody hangs a noose doesn't give anyone a right to use violence. Before the violence happened, you know that all the kids involved knew the consequences to violent behavior. Personally, I didn't even know that hanging a noose could be considered against the law (which is about the stupidst thing I've ever heard) but what it comes down to is the white kids used a symbol apparently, and the black kid acted apon it with violence...by the law, it ended how it should have.
Jd White, I thought you would have chinded in a long time ago, never the less, I hope you actualy took the time to read all of the post and all of the responses. Although your position on the issue does not suprize me, it does give me even more insight on your "Core Values", Mr. White.ANd as for the cross thing, "Yes it does offend real christians when it is use in hate, such as burning the cross on a black persons yard.Hate is as wrong as the violence that follows it.
I can't even respond to that comment or I'll be asked to leave this blog entirely! I'll be moving on! See yall on another page!!
Which comment Kristen P., mine or Mr. White's please do tell, I respect you opinion.
>How old do you have to be to realize that hitting people is against the law and morally wrong? I think i was about 5 when i learned this.
Again, if you pay attention to the details of the story, the white kids attacked the black kids first. Then the black kids retaliated. Both sides are wrong, why are you only condemning one side?
>but you cannot kill someone with words, or with symbols of racism, you can however kill someone with your fist.
This is incredibly wrong. Words and symbols are the cause of much of the violence in the world and people die on a daily basis because of them. It is correct to say that the words themselves don't kill, but they inspire people to kill. To take a current example, the Muslim terrorists who are willing to kill themselves to kill us are doing that because words and symbols convinced them it was the right thing to do.
>You don't want your children to go through the same things you went through but you can't change people.
But there is ample evidence that you can change people. People change all the time and on some occasions all it takes is the right words from the right person to make a person change their entire life. It happens all the time. I see it every semester in my job and I see it elsewhere, too.
>The only thing you can do is raise your children to the best of your ability and hope, that when the time comes when somebody tries them with things like the stuff we've talked about on this blog, that they are strong enough to react in the right way.
But that's not the only thing you can do. You can combat injustice in many ways. In fact, there's a whole set of lecture notes that tells you how to do it. ;)
>Ok, iturner, where do I start...the noose is a rope. It is a knot that was used not just to hang blacks, but many other races and in many other cultures.
While this is true, it ignores the fact that these things were not done at the same time or in the same manner. Throughout much of American history, including and up to the 1950s, nooses were used to hang, almost exclusively, innocent black men falsely accused of various crimes. It was used as a symbol to scare black people into "staying in their place" and subordinating themselves to whites. Just because that violence has decreased doesn't mean that the meaning of the symbol goes away. It isn't illegal to have or hang a noose. It's a crime to go to someone else's home or work and hang a noose on their property, just like burning a cross would be legal on your property, but not on someone else's. These things, in addition to violating property rights, are also considered to be an implied threat of racial violence. Now you may or may not see them that way, but you don't get to define that, the law does and it has done so based on history and precedent -- the same way anything else is defined.
>And, bye the way, just because somebody hangs a noose doesn't give anyone a right to use violence.
No one said it did. Again, the facts of the story are that the white kids attacked black kids first.
>but what it comes down to is the white kids used a symbol apparently, and the black kid acted apon it with violence...by the law, it ended how it should have.
But that isn't what it comes down to. Instead, it comes down to the fact that the white kids used a racist symbol, then they attacked the black kids with violence, then the black kids attacked a white kid with violence. And the penalties for the two attacks were drastically different.
Kriten Paul, you misunderstood me. I am saying thay my mother is a nurse. That is a rescpected carrer to have in society. She didn't look a mess. She was simply a black woman trying to shop and I did not appreciate the way she was treated.
I do not feel sorry for you choosing to date or hang out with who you want. Like Turner said it probably gets to you more because you are not use to it.
by Amanda Winn
Mr. White
I really can't beleive that you just think that a noose symbolizes a rope and that's it. It's obvious that you have never tried to understand anyone's culture but your own. If that "rope" symbolize death of white men, women, and children would you different? I am really shocked that you beleieve that. So did slavery happen in your eyes. Was it wronng or was it something that needed to happen so this country could be as strong as it is today? I pray in the future that you take some time out and read a couple books about African American history. Please educated yourself because right now its sem to me as if you justify hate crimes. I sure hope I am wrong.
By Amanda Winn
Amanda Winn, your response is great because you stuck to some great points about "Mr. White's" flawed perceptions and veiws. Your thoughts and emotions were held in check, some people need to feel other peoples raw emotions and other just need the facts. If to much emotion is put into what you are saying then, some ignorant people will just chaulk it up to being too emotional and therfor baseless. You however were controlled, percise, thoughtful, gentel and compassionate to others lack of understanding. To say it in a direct way, "you spoke what needed to be said, in a way EVEN AN IDIOT COULD UNDERSTAND!"
Lamar I was refering to JD's comment. To compare the cross to a a noose is absolutely crazy and if I say much more, like I said I'll be asked to leave.
Amanda, I understood what you said. I was just letting you know that there are other people that can relate. The color of someones skin is not the only reason for descrimination!
Good evening Kristen P., I thank you for the again for the response. I DON'T MISS MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAY IF ANY, so I didn't want to miss anything this time eighter. Hope you had a great day.
Thanks. I wish more people would do this. It seems like its the same old people posting things. My grade can't afford NOt participating.
These were the good old days, when classmates would blogg so much on great topics.
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