Thursday, November 15, 2007
I Hope You Get Sick!
I recently watched the documentary by Michael Moore on the American healthcare system(SICKO). In the movie Moore travels to many different countries that have universal healthcare and seem to be doing well, opposite of what our media or government tells us. Now I understand that some of it can be untrue or false, but for the most part I have to agree with the idea of universal healthcare. When will the happen for the U.S.? When will the people of America stand up against the government and show them that we run this country, not them? If we show them we are not afraid of them, then maybe there could be some change!
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8 comments:
Good luck with that one. Your talking about a revolutionary movement? The universal healthcare is a good thing, but I rather fight by the rules. The people who it effects most should do the most fighting after all. It doesn't really effect me either way so, people like me are truly selfless in managing this matter.
I don’t believe this is a matter of people standing up to the government for universal healthcare. I think many people have a job with benefits, including health care. What would they gain by universal health care? I think many people see it as paying more money to carry the deadbeats who don’t or won’t work. I don’t mind government programs but personally I feel there should be a ton of regulations. For instance, if you have a job working 40 hours a week, and are paying taxes, you would be eligible to receive health care benefits. This would not apply to you if you collect unemployment compensation, welfare or any other government handout. Maybe this would be incentive to get out and work.
>This would not apply to you if you collect unemployment compensation, welfare or any other government hand out.
That wouldn't make any sense. A good incentive is that everyone that has extensive health care coverage through their job, be reimbursed with a higher salary. That would include a large number of middle class people who accept lower paying jobs just for the benefits. Having to work 40 hours a week would be unfair also due to the fact that even my sister, a Physical Therapist, only works 30 hours a week which is considered full time in that field. The stipulation of paying taxes is an excellent idea, but must exclude minors. Universal health care in America could mean a cure for some difficult diseases. People often don't go to the hospital, because of costs. If more incidents were reported we'd have more studies on illnesses such as staphylococcus aureus. Thinking of the possible medical advances we could make due to a plan like that makes me estatic.
>When will the happen for the U.S.? When will the people of America stand up against the government and show them that we run this country, not them? If we show them we are not afraid of them, then maybe there could be some change!
Actually probably sooner than you think. American companies currently pay a big part of our health care costs through the programs people have at work. American companies lose a lot of money with this and they lose their competitive edge in the international arena. Before too long they will realize that their profits would be much higher (and they would get other benefit) if the U.S. did like every other modern Democratic country and went to universal health care. When they realize that, which they will relatively soon, then it will happen.
>Good luck with that one. Your talking about a revolutionary movement?
"Revolution" doesn't have to mean anything violent or illegal. It is quite common to have a revolution through voting.
>I think many people have a job with benefits, including health care. What would they gain by universal health care?
Lowe health care costs across the board, less costs in terms of welfare programs, lower crime rates, to name a few.
>I think many people see it as paying more money to carry the deadbeats who don’t or won’t work.
But almost nobody does see it this way. In some polls as high as 94% of the people favor universal health care. Besides, the biggest group of people without health insurance are children. Are they deadbeats?
>are paying taxes
100% of people in the U.S. pay taxes. In addition to sales taxes, anyone who works pays payroll taxes such as Social Security and Medicaid taxes.
>This would not apply to you if you collect unemployment compensation, welfare or any other government handout.
These things aren't handouts. By definition, if you are receiving unemployment compensation, you have worked and paid taxes and are looking for more work. If not, you can't get it. These types of programs are insurance programs that pay out when you are having tough times.
You seem to think there is this big group of people sitting around doing nothing and taking money from the government. There is no evidence this is true. There are some people who do this, but they are a tiny, tiny percentage. The overwhelming majority of people who receive government benefits only do so for a short period of time. Also, many people who receive government benefits do work, it's just that the minimum wage is so low you can't avoid poverty if you are working for even several dollars above minimum wage.
>That would include a large number of middle class people who accept lower paying jobs just for the benefits.
That is an economic decision. If you could make more money and pay for health insurance and still come out ahead of opting for taking a lower paying job with benefits, you would take the higher paying job. So really the lower paying job with benefits is the higher paying job.
>Low health care costs across the board, less costs in terms of welfare programs, lower crime rates, to name a few.
Ok, I can see lower health care costs, but lower costs for welfare programs and lower crime rates? How did you come to this conclusion?
>100% of people in the U.S. pay taxes. In addition to sales taxes, anyone who works pays payroll taxes such as Social Security and Medicaid taxes.
100%? Nothing is unequivocal. If you don't spend money, you don't pay sales tax. If you don't work, or work "under the table" you don't pay into the programs either.
>Besides, the biggest group of people without health insurance are children. Are they deadbeats?
Of course children are not deadbeats. The parents on the other hand...maybe.
>These things aren't handouts. By definition, if you are receiving unemployment compensation, you have worked and paid taxes and are looking for more work. If not, you can't get it.
This is true for unemployment however you know as well as I do that even with this program people will not find work, intentionally, sometimes to keep riding the wave.
>You seem to think there is this big group of people sitting around doing nothing and taking money from the government. There is no evidence this is true.
Call it cynicism. I see it everyday. I doubt we encounter the same types of people on a daily basis. They may be a very small percentage of the population, but they happen to be a large percentage of the people I deal with.
>Ok, I can see lower health care costs, but lower costs for welfare programs and lower crime rates? How did you come to this conclusion?
People who go into debt or bankruptcy are more likely to go on welfare programs. People in poor health are also more likely to engage in crime. All of these things are also confounding factors. Low health can lead to loss of job which can lead to unemployment (and thus welfare and/or crime). I came to this conclusion because this is what the research shows.
>100%? Nothing is unequivocal. If you don't spend money, you don't pay sales tax.
I agree with you in principle, but I've never heard of a single case ever where someone could survive without spending money.
>If you don't work, or work "under the table" you don't pay into the programs either.
People paid under the table still pay sales tax. And gas tax. And some other taxes, depending on what they buy.
>This is true for unemployment however you know as well as I do that even with this program people will not find work, intentionally, sometimes to keep riding the wave.
Sure, but unemployment benefits are limited. After a certain amount of time you are cut off, so you can only do this temporarily. The same is true for "welfare."
>Call it cynicism. I see it everyday.
No, I call it observational selection. I have no doubt in your line of work that you see tons of people who violate both the law and spirit of these type of programs. They aren't, however, representative of the vast majority of people who receive benefits.
>I doubt we encounter the same types of people on a daily basis.
Actually, a very high percentage of people on government benefits are in college. It's one of the ways to meet the work requirement. Also, my wife worked in the workforce development program in town for years.
>They may be a very small percentage of the population, but they happen to be a large percentage of the people I deal with.
Sure, but you're dealing with the worst cases, not the average cases.
Mike Moore movies are certainly interesting and can be revealing, but it is important to remember that you are seeing only one side of the story. He has perfected the spin game we talk about in class for sure!
nickpagel> Obviously you missed the, "I understand that some of it can be untrue and false,".
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